Tag: Bankers

Non-Deal Roadshows – what happens on them?

On March 22, 2016

In CFO, Investor Relations, Working With Investment Banks

Last week I covered investor conferences, this week I will discuss non-deal roadshows (NDR). In a typical company, NDR are the second highest source of in person meetings with investors (conferences tend to have the most meetings).

In many ways, NDR are very similar to investor conferences, they are another form of corporate access run by the banks that being management to meet with clients of the banks. Their difference is that the meetings are in the offices of the investors instead of at the conference site, but otherwise the meetings are similar in format to those at investor conferences. They are either questions and answers directed by the investor, a review of the standard investor relations presentation by the company or usually a combination of both. Regulation FD (fair disclosure) is still in full effect, so no material, non-public information can be discussed. You need to be extra cautious on any answers related to disclosure as you cannot confirm guidance as the SEC considers that as giving new guidance.

The main reason for doing a NDR is that it greatly increases the chances of you talking directly to portfolio managers or other key decision makers. These are the people that make the buy or sell call on your stock and they normally do not go to conferences on a regular basis. Normally they send their analysts to conferences. Another important advantage is that the larger firms with multiple funds often send multiple analysts or portfolio managers to your meetings where in a conference they normally only get one slot. So you directly access more decision makers at once. For the large companies, who and how many attend can be a good indication of how deep and broad the general interest at the firm is.

Logistics

Banks normally ask you to do a NDR for them. If there is significant demand, you may even get requests from banks that do not cover you. I recommend sticking to the banks that cover you as a courtesy and payback for the effort they make, but there might be a specific reason to use another bank. If no one has asked you and you want to do one, reach out to your covering analysts yourself or the investment banker that covers you.

Meetings are normally arranged by the sales force with the assistance of the analyst. If you remember from my blog on working with investment bankers, the sales force works for “the desk”, so your banker can help give a push inside the bank. So even if the analyst asked you to go out for them, there is no harm in mentioning it to your covering banker.

You can arrange your own meetings or suggest investors that you are targeting or that have requested a face-to-face meeting. The bank will want to limit the meetings to their clients and different banks have different tiers they service (large banks do not have many small clients while smaller banks will have more small clients). Even if you are suggesting a meeting, it is good practice to tell the investor to contact the bank and ask as well. The sales force may appreciate a chance to pitch to a client and start a relationship.

You are expected to make your own travel arrangements and pay your own hotel and meals expenses. The bank almost always provides local transportation at the city where the meetings are happening. Meetings are typically booked in 1.5 slots with 1 hour of meeting time and 30 minutes of travel time. In some cities the travel time is reduced and sometimes when there is big demand for meetings the meeting time gets crunched down to 45 minutes. Expect a long and tiring day, so try and get rest before the meetings. If demand is really large, expect a group lunch or dinner. Otherwise, make sure you eat.

Typical cities

This will vary, and I am writing as a USA-listed company CFO. I have lived in Asia, so I have more experience there, but not as much in Europe and none in the Middle East.

New York and Boston

These two have the most funds and have the most investment dollars available to invest in US companies. When you are offered an NDR, the analyst, who is at least partially paid based on trading volume run through his firm, will wants to do meetings in these two cities. I don’t mean this to be a travelogue, and I would assume that most people are familiar with the cities. NYC is bigger and even with the high density of funds, there can be lots of travel time from place to place. Very often you will get to a meeting faster if you walk. Traffic can a very, very bad. When the UN is opening a session or the President is visiting (or another major leader like the Pope), bad traffic can turn into a nightmare. Boston is a little easier to navigate as the central core where most of the funds are is smaller. There are several very large funds in Boston where you could draw a large crowd if they are interested.

There are a few pockets of investors outside in the greater NYC area, but normally the time it takes to get to New Jersey, Connecticut or Philadelphia is not worth it. NYC tends to have more hedge funds. Boston a bigger concentration of more traditional mutual funds. Both cities draw lots of management teams and the funds are not as excited about that as other cities are.

If you are traveling between the two cities, I suggest the Amtrak Express train. Much less affected by weather and the stations are right in the middle of where your meetings are. One major fund company is a cross the street from South Station in Boston.

Give yourself extra time, especially in NYC, to show ID to enter every building. Security can be tight. Make sure you bring picture ID.

London and Europe

This is probably the location with the largest concentration of investors. A few other cities like Zurich and Frankfurt have a good amount as well, but London is the biggest. My experience here is much more limited, but I have been to both conferences and NDR in London. Not too different than NYC where the concentration is good but traffic and the sheer size of the city means that getting from meeting to meeting can add delays. I was stuck behind the Queen in a horse drawn carriage once in London as some ceremony in the Parliament had her traveling and the traffic loop in from of Buckingham Palace is a main route to and from the City. You can end up with a few meetings pretty far apart and the Tube is the best bet to avoid traffic in that case.

Zurich, Geneva and Edinburgh are other cities that may be worth a visit. I have not been to Frankfurt or Paris but both have fund managers there as well. If you are already in Europe anyways, it may be worth an extra day or two to visit cities other than London.

Hong Kong

Like NYC, this is the city with the highest concentration of investors and probably the one where you are most likely to walk from meeting to meeting. The walking is through a maze of shopping malls, so a local guide is good. A lot of American and European funds have their Asian office here, so if there is an Asian connection to your company it is a good place to visit. Many hedge funds here that are either local money or branches of other Western hedge funds.

Singapore

I lived here for a few years and was CFO of a company listed in the USA but HQed here, so I did quite a few NDR there. You probably will not do too much walking here because of heat and humidity but the central core with most of the funds is not that large. For the most part, the funds here also have an Asian theme so not as much demand for pure American companies but if you have flown to Hong Kong it is not that far to Singapore. The sovereign wealth funds here can be good, long term shareholders if they are interested.

Smaller USA cities

One you get out of NYC and Boston, it does get harder to fill a whole day with meetings in most other cities. However, there are probably 10 other cities that have enough funds that a visit is worthwhile. One big benefit is that management teams do not travel to these cities anywhere near as often and you are much more likely to meet with a portfolio manager or other investment decision maker in a smaller city than a larger one. Smaller cities tend to have smaller accounts and make a good match for any smaller banks that cover you.

The meetings themselves

As always, I suggest that you do not go to the meetings alone. Running around NYC or other cities can be a logistical nightmare, and having a friendly person in the room with you can help protect you should strange trading happen while you are doing the NDR and people wonder what you said.

Your covering analyst will often go to meetings with you. They will write a report after the NDR, usually after giving their clients a couple of days to act themselves. This is a good chance to make sure they know you story better and can articulate the points you were making in the meetings. You also will get to spend more time and develop a better and more personal relationship with your analyst. I have never met one that was not overworked and understaffed, and spending 2-3 days with you on an NDR is a pretty big commitment. Understand that and try and return the favor, even if it is a few kind words about the analysts to the accounts they cover.

The other person that may attend your meetings in the sales person that covers the account. It might be tempting to think they are not as important as the covering analyst, but they are the ones with the day to day relationship with the people that may be buying and selling your stock. Many are very experienced and meet management teams all the time. Saying a thank you for their help and asking them what their clients are worried about might give you a good tip or two. I do know a good sales team makes a difference for your covering analyst and it doesn’t take much effort to show appreciation for the meetings you set up. If you ask in advance, the sales force will print your standard presentation out and make sure that their accounts have a copy. When they can’t attend the meeting, they might give you a copy to leave with their client.

Some accounts, especially in Boston, do not allow banks to attend unless on a deal roadshow.

The meetings with the investors themselves are quite different than at conferences, if only because they are in their office. You probably are meeting with some of the most senior people at the firms you are visiting, so listen to what questions they ask and ask a few questions back to them as well. I have always found the very big funds in Boston are the most courteous and respectful but they are also super professional. The notes from your meeting will go into a database and they keep track of what you say and what happens. The meetings are very much part of judging you as well as the company and the person that could be pulling the trigger on very big investments in you is asking you questions.

Like any marketing speech, you need three to five key points you want to leave at each meeting. Make sure you know what they are and deliver that message each time. You really only have time to do a few NDR a year at most, so make it count. Unlike investor conferences and talking to analysts, talking to portfolio managers at their offices can lead to quicker decisions.

Beating the Street

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Working with investment bankers

By Michael

On March 8, 2016

In CFO, Finance, Working With Investment Banks

If you have followed a normal career progression through finance to make it to CFO, you probably worked with investment bankers at least once along the way. It is possible you did not, maybe you are at a start-up that is just now successful enough to go public or do some form of pre-public fund raising and you are dealing with bankers for the first time. It is a fallacy to believe that working for a big company means you would have worked with investment bankers as you climbed the ladder as normally only the Treasury department and the CFO do that, division finance staff normally are not involved. Even if you are involved, it is as a data source, not negotiating the deal. Mid-sized companies tend not to have formal Treasury departments and are a lot more egalitarian, so a much better chance of gaining some experience.

This blog is about working with the bankers themselves. Each investment bank is different and has resources far beyond the bankers that directly cover you, but you will probably never see the rest of the bank, just the small staff that covers you and the few people within their bank that they introduce you too. I try not to be too caught up in the name of the bank they work for and focus more on what my coverage team can deliver. Obviously, there are different tiers of banks, but which ones want to serve you is already at least partially driven by your company size. There just is not enough business for larger investment banks to devote resources to smaller companies.

Investment banks and their bankers get a lot of negative press. The recent, Oscar nominated film “The Big Short” is a good example. They usually are a topic in just about every major political campaign, and populist anger is stirred up against them. The current hit musical “Hamilton” has some of the Founding Fathers attacking them as doing nothing but moving money around. At the end of this blog, I will link some books that are quite critical on bankers and their culture. I can tell you that I have worked with quite a few bankers over my career and I have cannot remember working with any that are like the tell all books I have read, but the banking culture certainly is a culture into and of themselves. I will also link a few more “studious” books as well, if only for balance.

Let’s start with describing the three types of bankers you are likely to work with. The first, and most important, in your coverage banker. The leader of that team is almost always a “managing director” and typically has a small team that works for them. The MD is usually an industry specialist but otherwise a generalist. The next type of banker that you are likely to meet is a product specialist. There are many different products that a bank can sell to the market or to you and the product specialist is the one that supports the MD in pitching the products. Examples are syndicated loans, hedging instruments, convertible bonds, asset backed securities. The bank probably has someone who specializes in that product. The final banker that you are likely to meet is someone from one of the “desks”. This may or may not be one of the specialists that came to sell a product to you, but the important ones you want to meet are the heads of the Equity Capital Markets desk or the Debt Capital Markets desk.

The “desks” are always a little hard to understand, but the easiest way to think of them is that they run the sales force that will be selling your instrument to investors and they are the ones that decide on how it will get allocated between the bank’s customers (not you in this case).

What is very important here is that your coverage banker must be experienced and have clout internally. If you do a deal run by that bank, you need to best and most experienced team executing the deal and the relationship that the coverage banker has with the desk is key. A good relationship can result in above average resources devoted to your deal. A bad relationship or lack of clout in their bank and you might get the the C team and so-so execution.

One question that I get from time to time is how do you even get covered by a bank or bankers so you can get access to them and their resources. I find that question a little strange because bankers survive on fee income. So if there is a way for them to earn a reasonable fee, you should be able to get the attention of a banker. The main way to meet a banker up front is through your lawyers, accountants or through your investors if you are VC funded. If you have a deal for them or a good possibility of a deal in the near future, you will get some attention at least. If you actually have a transaction like an IPO, you can do a “bake-off”, and get a few banks to compete for your business.

Choosing a banker

Let’s say you have had your bake-off, or you have met a few bankers and now you are trying to decide which one to go with. I’ll try and list out some of the things that I consider the most.

The first is that is this is not a smaller transaction, then you probably will have several different banks working on the deal. Whoever you choose as the lead banker (the bank on the left of the list of bankers on the front page of the offering document) will end up controlling the deal, so I generally try and focus the most on picking that one. As an aside, banks and their bankers are very competitive and expect to have several ridiculous conversations about position and typeface and variations of the title they are called. You will need to make it very clear that the banks are to work together well. Most are professional, but they also want to position themselves for the next deal and they are perfectly happy to throw their competition under a bus if given a chance.

I tend to look for experience, both in the bank and from the banker, trustworthiness, and strategic sense. All banks will have two different experience elements in their initial pitch books – league tables and deal tombstones. They will cut industry data in a way that shows that they are a leader, usually the leader in whatever deal they are trying to get onto (or your industry if an initial meeting). They will list out all the deals they were on, sometimes even if they had only very minor roles if they need to, but usually any deals they were some form of bookrunners.

I am a little cynical about league tables because the data chosen is cherry-picked to make the pitching bank look good, but they do have some reference value because if you have 3-4 banks come see you, you can compare the tables and see if there is a pattern as to who is number 2 or three in all of them. That is a good indication of who the leaders really are. Having a big market share and being a leader for a long time can be a good indication of how strong the bank is. And if the banker cannot make his bank look good, then you need to ask yourself how good a job they will do for you with investors.

The tombstones are much less useful. I normally look at the dates to make sure enough are recent, and I ask if the banker and his team personally worked on the deals presented. With typical turnover, anything more than several years old was likely done by a different team and different leaders at the bank.

The next criteria is trustworthiness. This may be surprising, but even with the books listed at the end and my cynicism about the process, I like my current bankers very much and I have had almost uniformly positive experiences with them. What I need to know is that are they there to help me as their priority or themselves or their bank and if they can keep details confidential. Both are easy to tell. Are they listening and advising or are they selling? Are they sharing details of competition that would make you uncomfortable if they shared the same about you?

One of the best ways to tell if you are a priority is coverage (visits, phone calls, emails) even when there is not a deal on the table. The next best indication is if they lend you resources, typically an associate or two to help in a project you are working on. Banks tend to have very good in house models for M&A, for example, or they may have very good knowledge and advice on what to use for standard valuation metrics.

The final part, their strategic ability, is the toughest to determine from just one meeting. Normally this comes out over time. I already have defined that the purpose of strategy is to win. If you find a banker that can help you win more often and by bigger margins, then you have found someone worth their fees. The first thing you need as a start is that they have to look at your business and start giving suggestions. Could be a suggestion on recapitalizing your company. Could be intel on what the competition is up to. Maybe how to reposition yourself with your investor base. The idea is some value added advice that. Comes from them and. shows their understanding of your business and how it is positioned in the marketplace. I have found that the average banker I work with to be quite smart, And the more experienced and business savvy ones can give you very good advice.

Fees

Fees are always negotiable to a certain point. If there is push back on banking fees, you can often tackle it another way via professional fees like the lawyers and accountants. Your lawyers and accountants can tell you what is usual and standard. Do not be afraid to push back here. There is a risk that if you push the fee too low the desk and sales people may not be too excited to sell your deal, but normally only the hugest deals get the very low fees. You can move part of the fee into a success or bonus fee payable at your discretion for over performance.

This isn’t an area to ignore as they can add up, but better performance can give you much better terms than expected and will save a lot more than a small fee reduction up front. Of course, the fee reduction is guaranteed and the extra performance is not, but you do want a motivated banking team.

Indicative Ranges

When a banker is pitching a deal to you, they can be a little too aggressive on the terms they say they can close a deal at. I have seen interest rates quoted well below the last few deals for similar companies quoted to me. Some think that once they have won your business and you are committed and on the road with them, they can always talk you up and blame market conditions. You are somewhat trapped and exposed once you start a deal process. This is where pushing the fee down and making some contingent on performance helps. If they start waffling on their indicative terms once you put some of their fees at risk, you know they are not as sure as they claim. You can always ask them what rate they would backstop the deal at or if they are willing to make it a bought deal and they take the risk or reward of the marketing. This is an area where getting several different banks pitching gives you a much better read on the market.

You need to trust your banker and believe that he is honest if you are going to be happy working with them. Their honesty about indicative ranges is a good touch point. No one can really guarantee what the market will be when the deal is launched, but over promising is dangerous to you. Someone that is not scared but who properly prepares you before a deal launches is very important. Fund raising is very much your responsibility as CFO and delivering a good deal reflects well on you. You need a banker that is a reliable team member.

A few final items

I have been out at events where several CFO’s are being taken to dinner. I find it quite questionable that some take the opportunity to order the most expensive bottle of wine. As much as you will see stories from the books I linked below about the excesses of Wall Street, the real crazy days are way behind us. You don’t want your banker to take advantage of you, so give him the same respect and courtesy. This may be someone you build up a relationship that spans years and maybe they are the one that give you the recommendation that gives you a board seat later in your career.

If you borrow staff and get additional support over time, remember that and try and steer business their way. If they do well, recommend them to other business contacts. They can be very helpful to you personally and can make a big difference in your career prospects, and it is much easier to work with people you respect. Don’t forget their lower level staff that work on your deals. Far too often the celebration at the end forgets your staff and the banking associates. Try to make sure that they get included. If not appropriate for the formal closing dinner, have the junior bankers take your junior staff out.

Finally, don’t get too caught up in the anti-banking media hype. There are plenty of good bankers out there that really care a out their clients. Be careful, remember that they are probably smarter than you with much more resources than you can bring to bear, but buil the right mutually beneficial relationship.

Books and Movies (I have read or seen these myself)

The Culture of Bankers

Liar’s Poker

Liar’s Poker (Norton Paperback)

Liar’s Poker (25th Anniversary Edition): Rising Through the Wreckage on Wall Street (25th Anniversary Edition) Kindle

The Big Short

The Big Short: Inside the Doomsday Machine

Bankers Behaving Badly

Straight to Hell

Straight to Hell: True Tales of Deviance, Debauchery, and Billion-Dollar Deals

Wolf of Wall Street

The Wolf of Wall Street